The Future of Reputation: Professor Solove Responds
I’d
like to thank Professor Picker for using The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor,
and Privacy in this seminar. It gratifies me greatly to see the book
being discussed so robustly in law school classes. I wrote this book primarily
to spark discussion, which is why I spend so much time on anecdotes. I wanted
my own solutions to be in the background rather than at the center of the book,
because this book is more about understanding the complexity of the problems
than it is about proposing an elegant theory for solving them. Indeed, I don’t
think that there is a particularly great solution out there, only a series of
steps that can help a little bit, but that ultimately are not even close to
pulling a rabbit out of a hat. The goal of the book is to get people talking
about some difficult and interesting issues – and to keep the discussion
balanced and at a sophisticated level. I hope I achieved that even if you weren’t
sold on my solutions, which I consider to be moderate rather than radical and paradigm-shifting.
I greatly enjoyed reading the
commentary about the book on this blog. I found the comments on the blog to all
be quite thoughtful and thought-provoking. I have a few responses to some of
the comments (there are too many to respond to all). Without further ado, here
are my thoughts.
Mario V on 4/20 writes: “Solove is right in saying that we should be able to control
our reputation to some extent, but I think that he underestimates our ability to
do so. If I do not want a video of me posted on internet, I should be more
careful of where I leave videos of myself after I record them. People know or
should know that with today’s technology anyone can capture anything one does
in public and expose it to everyone else in the world. Keeping this in mind,
people can modify their behavior accordingly.”
Daniel
J. Solove (DJS): I disagree both descriptively and normatively. With the
current trajectory of modern technology, it is becoming very difficult to
escape from being recorded unless one lives like a hermit. As a normative
matter, should a person have to be so guarded in public to escape from being
photographed, videotaped, or recorded? Preserving the privacy of public spaces
where we expect a kind of anonymity is important. This is a normative issue. The
law in other countries protects against being photographed in public – the ECHR
cases of Peck v. United Kingdom [2003]
ECHR 44, and Von Hannover v. Germany, [2004]
ECHR 294 – strike me as well-reasoned and thoughtful opinions that depart from
the general U.S. view that there exists little privacy in public. I discuss
these cases briefly in my new book, Understanding Privacy.
Nathan
Richardson on 4/20 writes: “Letting humans use the internet is like setting
monkeys loose on a space station - there’s going to be a mess. In neither case
is technology the problem, and in neither case is it the solution. Fix the
monkey, and you fix the mess.”
DJS: Yes, technology is an
amplifier of human nature. It isn’t altering human nature. We are prone to
gossiping, spreading rumors, and shaming. The Internet doesn’t change that
about us. But it does change the nature and effects of these practices. I’m not
sure that you can alter human nature so that people don’t gossip, spread
rumors, or shame. So without this, the goal must be to try to minimize the
amplifying effects of the technology without unduly limiting the good aspects
of the technology.
Kathy Lee on 4/21 observes: “Solove does a nice job presenting real-life examples
of erosions of privacy that have troubling consequences. Solove, unfortunately,
fails to present examples that align with the first view of the world
[reputation is part of an individual’s fundamental right to dignity], which
would offer stronger and more absolute protections of privacy. . . . “
DJS: The Star Wars Kid’s
dignity is impinged because he can’t present himself to the world as he would
like. The problem isn’t just cruelty, as you categorize it. It is that he will
never live down being the Star Wars Kid. No matter what he does, short of
coming up with a cure for cancer, it will always be a major part of his
biography. Maybe in the future he won’t be embarrassed by it, but he still
might not enjoy being known for it, having that be a defining feature in how
others view him.
Washingtonienne also involves
the same phenomenon. Robert may not be ashamed of his sexual activities, but he
might not want to be known primarily as “the guy who had spanked Jessica Cutler
during sex.” This strikes me as a matter of dignity.
Overall, I’m not a big fan of
dignity-based arguments, as I find the concept of dignity to be so amorphous
and undefined that it does little actual work. We can justify free speech, too,
as a matter of individual dignity.
Issues of reputation are
tricky, because they involve individual interests on both sides. It is hard to
appeal to rights, or dignity, or autonomy since these are implicated both by the
interest in privacy and the interests in expressing oneself, sharing
information, and learning information about others.
Christopher James on 4/22 writes: “Being a bad tipper or improperly driving in an HOV lane is
hardly the type of behavior that ends one’s career or relationship, and
rational individuals, such as employers, should likewise recognize the
one-sided nature of such sites. . . . In this scenario, individual
indiscretions such as those mentioned by Solove are quite damaging, and perhaps
disproportionately so relative to their actual gravity—mostly because their
disclosure is still relatively uncommon. . . . The second scenario I can
contemplate is one which I sense Solove believes is possible, namely the
emergence of a world where every last mistake or willful norm violation lands
us on someone’s “pet norm” grievance blog, full with photos and video of the
misdeed. . . . Rather, if this ubiquity of disclosure is indeed our
future, the very ubiquity the scenario describes will only serve to make each
violation recorded progressively less significant and less memorable. Only the
truly outrageous will stand out, as perhaps they should to a degree and already
do anyway.”
DJS: These are fair
criticisms. Regarding the first scenario, it is true that the more minor
indiscretions aren’t bad in isolation, but one can imagine a world where they
are aggregated. Regarding ubiquity of disclosure, it is true that there will be
less attention to people like the Dog Poop Girl if people are writing about these
things every day. One of the features of Internet gossip and shaming is that it
is new – so people get a kick out of writing about the Dog Poop Girl because it
is a new phenomenon, not because it happens thousands of times. Will shaming
occur on a systemic level like the Dog Poop Girl all the time in the future? Probably
not. There will be special cases that are “sticky” and get a lot of attention. With
gossip, there will be more information online about people based on all the
blogging and social network website use in high school and college. This
information can pull up in a Google search and could be used to affect how
people are judged, etc. It is true that “only the truly outrageous will stand
out” for the purposes of making people into Internet celebrities. There will
only be a handful of Dog Poop Girls or Star Wars Kids. But the Dog Poop Girl
isn’t really outrageous. Nor is Little Fatty. Nor is the Star Wars Kid. There’s
a rather random quality to what people suddenly decide is funny or interesting.
Part of the process is that a meme gets started and then grows based on its own
momentum. So the reality is that even non-outrageous things might become popular
memes, but which ones will be relatively hard to predict.
Somers on 4/22 observes: “I also wasn’t terribly persuaded by his appeals to youthful
mistakes and second chances. Frankly if the modern trends in the internet force
our youth to march up the learning curve a little faster than they otherwise
might, this is a preferable situation in the aggregate. Society as a whole will
be better off (although admittedly potentially at the expense of the
individuals crucified along the way). The kind of youthful indiscretions that
one might suffer for later in life in the world of tell-all internet searches-
petty theft, drug abuse, etc.- aren’t exactly desirable life experiences, nor
are they costless to society as a whole (law enforcement costs, economic loss
to stores). If the practical affect is to so stigmatize those offenders so severely
that the acts less oft repeated, we may be better off.”
DJS: It is true that many of these
behaviors aren’t socially desirable. I admitted as much in the book. But I
argued that Internet shaming punished people disproportionately and led to greater
social disorder. The punishment is more harmful than the crime. Somers’s view
is based on a deterrence model – these behaviors can certainly be deterred
through such actions. We can also deter petty theft much more if we executed
people for it. But deterrence is only one penal goal – there’s also
retribution, which has a sense of proportionality to it.
We certainly don’t want to
encourage youthful indiscretions, but despite punishments, many young people
still do them. There is a limit to how much we can expect teenagers to avoid
engaging in some unsavory activity. Many will do so. We obviously want to
deter, but we also want to deal fairly with those who transgress.
Frank B on 4/23 writes: “High profile individuals might have effective error correction
online, but a dispersed preference for accuracy does not trump the focused
motives of a defamer. Solove’s central observations ring true for me.”
DJS: I agree. The web-correction
argument only works in some circumstances, not all. It is an argument I believe
that is often overplayed.
Ross Tucker
on 4/28 writes: “While I’m all for free content on the Internet, I think it’s
pretty difficult for copyright owners to police their rights on this medium. I
think it will be just as difficult, if not more difficult, for people to police
their own reputations on the Internet. We see how difficult it is for large
copyright owners (such as record labels and studios) to prevent infringement of
their materials, and they hire people to do the enforcing for them.”
DJS:
This is a good argument, and one that is difficult to respond to. Notice and
takedown regimes don’t work very well. Although the strategy taken by the RIAA
regarding copyright is an unfortunate one in my opinion, I don’t think that it
is entirely ineffective in achieving its goal. It is expressive, and it does
increase the risks and costs of music sharing. It may not stop a lot of piracy,
but it probably does deter some. This is a mild benefit. I think that the
strategy ultimately fails not because it doesn’t fully stamp out piracy, but
because there are better strategies out there that could benefit both consumers
and the music industry.
Jim Abell on
4/29 argues that my suggestions for an expanded conception of privacy might
only be partially effective, and that “a large portion of the problem can be
solved through a greater self-awareness of the risks to privacy that our
networked world poses.” In other words, we should be more careful in public.
DJS:
There are at least two issues involved in whether law should expand its
conception of privacy. The first is whether it is possible for the law to
protective privacy more expansively in a given manner. The second is whether it
is normatively desirable for the law to do so. Regarding the first, many
objections to a more expansive protection of privacy in public stem from the
argument that it is simply not feasible to do so. I believe that it is possible
for the law to protect privacy in public in an effective way. In the book, I
analogized to copyright law to demonstrate that even if information is public
and readily available, the law can still regulate the way it is used and
provide a lot of control over it. The second issue -- whether any particular
level of protection of privacy in public is desirable -- is a different question.
I took Abell’s argument to be based on the first argument rather than the
second.
Dan Jones on
4/29 writes: “Solove is entirely too dismissive of the court’s reasoning in the
Ruth case. The court, by deferring to the media, was rightly uncomfortable with
imposing editorial controls that would be difficult to enforce and would lack a
coherent legal standard. . . . . It also sounds a lot like a legislative
problem, not one well-suited to ill-fitting common law standards.”
DJS:
When courts first confronted whether to recognize the Warren and Brandeis
torts, some courts recognized them in the common law. Others concluded, as
Jones does, that legislatures were best suited to doing so. When legislatures did
respond by legislating the torts, they did so by basically providing for a
fairly open-ended framework. In other words, regardless of whether the tort of
public disclosure was legislatively or judicially crafted, these versions of
the tort have been remarkably similar. Thus, a call to the legislature has
often resulted in a punt back to the courts. Legislative solutions can be just
as open-ended and muddy as common law ones. Moreover, I wonder whether it is
possible to craft a more detailed legislative approach toward the
newsworthiness test. It is easy to punt to the legislature; courts often like
to do this. And legislatures love to punt to courts. If the law were a football
league, there would be no shortage of punters and very few quarterbacks.
Deferring
to the media is untenable because it basically eviscerates the tort. So what,
then, would a legislative approach do? Jones is quick to note difficulties with
the approaches, but there are muddy areas in nearly all areas of law, so why is
the muddiness here any more pernicious than muddiness in other areas of free
speech law or other areas of tort law?
Max
Schleusener on 4/30 writes: “If the gossip is juicy, easily copied and reposted
elsewhere, there’s no stopping it with a feeble penalty.” He also recommends
Justice White’s suggestion for defamation law – limited damages and in some
cases, merely a judgment that a statement was false would be sufficient.
DJS: The goal of the law is
to nudge norms a little bit. That’s all I really think that the law can achieve
here.
Regarding Justice White’s
suggestion of limited damages on recovery and a judgment of falsity in
defamation cases, I have no objection to this – I think it’s a good idea. I
recommend limited damages in the book as a possible component of a solution. As
far as a judgment of falsity, it works for defamation, but doesn’t work as well
for invasions of privacy. A judgment that something invaded a person’s privacy
is not likely to do anything to help cure the invasion. In contrast, a judgment
from a court that something said was false is an authoritative source that a
person can cite to in order to counteract the false statement.
Sarah Cottrell on 4/30 writes: The primary problem with Solove’s book is that he does such
a good job describing all of the reputational horrors that can result from
abuse of online forums that his relatively modest proposals look laughably
impotent in the face of these harms. I came away from the book thinking that
the only way to truly prevent many of the harms that Solove describes would be
a system so draconian, punitive, and regulated that it should make anyone who
recognizes the value of free speech shudder.
DJS:
I agree that the law is quite limited in what it can do. I tried in the book to
suggest a solution that would be respectful of free speech yet push the law to
do as much as it could do to protect privacy. At best, the law can help nudge
norms along, but beyond that, it isn’t a magic elixir.
Sarah
Cottrell continues: “I came away from the book wondering if Solove really
believes that his modest proposals would result in greater protection of
individual’s privacy if the legal penalties are faster, easier, and cheaper.”
DJS:
I think that improving the law would help somewhat, but it’s far from a cure. It
can push toward a direction, but that’s all. It is tempting in the field of law
to think that the law can achieve a lot more than it can. I’m a realist as to
what I think that the law can achieve. But imperfect and weak an instrument as
it may be, the law can do something. It
may not be much, but I have yet to hear of anything that would be more
effective. Ultimately, I recommend in Chapter 8 that we better educate people
about the consequences of spreading information online, and my suggestions for
legal reform are actually ways to make the law serve a more educative function.
I’m trying to use the law in a way that maximizes its expressive qualities and
minimizes its cost and burden.
There
were many other thoughtful comments that I found insightful, such as Derek
Little’s analysis of shaming and Foucault, Frank_B’s discussion of Wikipedia,
and Claire Hausman’s discussion of anonymity, among others.
Thanks
for your interesting reactions to my book. It was a pleasure to read them on
this blog.
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